Pale Blue Dot’s Heidi Lindvall on investing in climate tech & finding a purpose driven career path
Climate change is undoubtedly one of the most important problems to solve in the 21st century. Technology and entrepreneurship are among the best tools to help solve this macro problem.
Heidi Lindvall is a serial entrepreneur, investor and General Partner at Pale Blue Dot, a $100M venture fund investing in climate tech startups.
In this episode of Collective Hindsight, you’ll learn how Heidi chose to focus on a truly purpose-driven career path and set her sights on solving bold and meaningful problems in the world through her own companies and her investments.
You’ll also learn how Heidi thinks about the changing mindset of European founders versus their American counterparts, and the growing potential of Europe as a center of startups.
Listen to the full episode on Spotify here.
Transcript is available below.
Collective Hindsight, Episode 01, Heidi Lindvall
Daniel:
Today I’m sitting with Heidi Lindvall, who is a general partner at Pale Blue Dot, a $100 million venture fund investing in startups across the U S and Europe that helps solve critical climate change problems. How do you is a serial entrepreneur as well? Having previously who’ve been the CEO and founder of story gummy and having started companies like Kodak and Maven video as well. So I’m really excited for the conversation I’m going to have with Heidi today as a she’s someone who is working towards solving larger global problems like climate change. And I think hence today’s episode is going to be super interesting for anyone who’s interested, not only in entrepreneurship and investing, but also wants to find a bigger purpose to focus their career and their work on. So Heidi, why don’t you start us off by sharing a little bit about your journey to the point you’re at now
Heidi: 1:35
Great. Well, thanks so much for having me. First of all I definitely have a bit of a unconventional journey. I would say to, to becoming a climate tech VC. I my background is actually in kind of human rights and media. So I used to run a documentary film company, traveled around the world, making documentaries on social and global issues. And and Julie was trying to be on the ground and figuring out what big problems we have and where we should kind of focus our time and effort. After that I felt like I wanted to go on the side of helping solve some of these problems. So I actually went into tech, which again is not something people would expect after having kind of made documentaries and things like child soldiers or press freedom issues. But I felt like tech was such a powerful tool. And he wasn’t really being used to its full extent. I know, I thought there was a lot more that we could do if we could kind of get this tool in the hands of the amazing founders with, with, you know, huge problems that are out there. And that’s kind of what I been wanting to do for the past 10 years or so. So I built a few companies myself but which took me from London to Berlin, to Silicon Valley. And now I’ve been in Sweden for the past three years then I’ve After that went on to the kind of support side and try to, I came back to Europe after spending some time in the U S and really tried to figure out how we could or how I could help create better SU support programs, better accelerators better resources and, and how we could really. Kind of race, the level of ambition or health in for entrepreneurs in Europe. So I was part of creating first an accelerator through open data Institute, part of a horizon 2020 program. And then I came to Sweden to help build FastTrack MoMA, which is where I met one of my co-founders, who I’m working with today, Joel, and together we will accelerate or we together also built a microfund and then after that, we decided to. Essentially scale this up and see if we could just start a bigger fund together. And then together with hump was who ha was already working in VC and, and was investing as an angel investor. We kind of thought that should we, the three of us started climate fund and it was really because, you know, I have always, like I said, had been on the kind of trajectory of figuring out what are the biggest problems that we have and how can we solve them. And we felt like with our background, with our kind of knowledge in the startup industry, this. VC was a kind of right tool. It was a tool that we knew how to use and we, and we knew kind of what was needed from founders side. And climates was the biggest problem that we are facing as humanity at the moment. So we really just made sense for us to kind of come together and focus our careers on solving climate, essentially.
Daniel: 4:13
sure. It sounds like a very interesting journey up to this point. And I’m curious to hear, of course climate change is a huge structural problem. Right? And I think that in terms of like the venture funding that has gone into it there’s been like maybe some. Similar or kind of adjacent waves before. But I think people were kind of labeling those as more like clean tech and things like that. So how do you define climate tick?
Heidi: 4:34
Yeah, so, so you are right there definitely has been. I mean, there was a clean tech movement and, you know, some people have been calling in green tech kind of all environmental tech, et cetera. And what w what we call climate tech is really scalable. Climate tech solutions essentially. And you know, for us, we often Cleantech was much more just kind of how to get green, renewable energy and climate tick is much wider than that. For us, it is something that kind of spans across all sectors. So we see climate companies in FinTech and food and agriculture and mobility in fashion supply chain, and they really are in every single sector. Trying to figure out how we could kind of reduce the negative effects on climate or how we could reverse climate or how we can just prepare it for new world and kind of mitigate kind of for the worst consequences. So yeah, for us, climate tech is really something that, you know, it’s, it works within the start of model. So it’s scalable often software and, and it can be, like I said, in any sector,
Daniel: 5:40
And is there any kind of specific areas of climate change that you think are the most critical? And then hence, you’re trying to invest into those specific problems.
Heidi: 5:49
Not really, to be honest, I think that the thing about the climate is that it isn’t just one issue. I think, I mean, we need all of the different types of solutions, so we need clean energy. We need water. We need living conditions where we don’t have to fear big natural disasters, but we also need to change our behavior. So, you know, for example, we need to recycle, we need less plastic. We need to consume less, maybe go more towards rental models. We need to. Eat more sustainable diets. And we need to figure out how to move towards electric vehicles, et cetera. So it’s not just one thing. And I think th the area of reduction already is enormous. And that kind of, like I said, it kind of comes down to every industry. Every, every sector, every industry has a responsibility to figure out how they can reduce their negative effects on climate. But then, then this, of course the reverse part of it as well. We need to look at the sequestration. We need to look at carbon capture. So I think. I think that’s the unique thing about thinking about climate and that’s kind of what, what makes it not really sector specific is that it spans across everything we do. And it spans across every industry and all of these solutions are as needed. So. I mean, of course, I then personally have a few things like every now and then I’m like, okay, at the moment, I’m only looking at seaweed because I’m really into where I’m only looking at FinTech solutions and how we can push more money towards kind of green finance, et cetera. But I don’t think there’s one specific thing that we should be focusing on to fix this. I think we should focus on all of them.
Daniel: 7:17
For sure. And you mentioned there’s of course there’s some problems that are like traditionally I guess maybe I bought like renewable energy and that was a little bit. Before people realized that you could solve a lot of these problems with software. What, what are some of the interesting things within software? And I know that you have like companies like patch in your portfolio, right? How do you see companies like patch, like solving climate tech problems with software more specifically, specifically.
Heidi: 7:39
I mean, I think this is the interesting thing, because again, software for me, technology is a tool, right? Like it’s the tool that we’re using to build something that will solve these problems. And I mean, they are so patches, great example, an API for negative emissions, you know, think about it as you buy something and then you figure out how you can super easily kind of offset or. By negative emissions for them money and make sure that something kind of good comes out of it and neutralizing that transaction, essentially. But then we also have things like we have marketplaces. We have a marketplace called surplus, which is essentially working with it’s a recycle recyclable plastic marketplace. So working with Recycling stations and, and essentially people who want to buy recycled plastic and trying to make sure that there is a market out there. We have a company running a kind of data driven subscription. Platform for, for rental clothes, for example. So that’s another example of how we can try to get people away from our old models of consuming and thinking about more rental models and enabling them with technology. And then we have things like A SAS platform for a material intelligence, try to get brands to move towards more sustainable materials. So I think in every sector, again, like technologies, just that little layer, it’s just that tool that we use to enable these problems. And sometimes it’s not really automatically what people think of when they think of climate tech, they kind of their minds go to. You know, carbon capture, fusion, and really thinking about like, what are the biggest things that we can do. And I think those are, are super important as well, but, but there are so many smaller solutions or there are so many other components that are needed. And sometimes that’s kind of where I see ourselves. Like we’re more on the kind of climate tech on the. Using technology to enable some of these changes in some of these solutions, rather than actually building and researching the huge technologies that are going to, you know, suck carbon out of the atmosphere. And those are other investors who are kind of much better, better suited to do those investments,
Daniel: 9:44
for sure. But it’s so interesting to think about how software specialists can, can be used as a layer on top of of other problems too. To kind of mitigate a lot of the risks so I think a lot of people would maybe agree with the fact that European VCs have traditionally across all different types of investment verticals have been a bit more conservative compared to the U S counterparts. So how do you see like the investor mindset in Europe having changed when it comes to these more like bold macro problems, like climate change.
Heidi: 10:12
I think that it’s changing people are being a bit braver to take these types of bets. But I do still think that we are behind specifically us on a really backing kind of moonshot ideas. And, and I want to be really clear that there is no shortage of amazingly talented. Diverse founders. There’s no shortage of incredible Bible ideas. Like we have that. But what I think that we lack is almost the kind of. Encouragement and nurturing all of ambition. They were very humble in Europe and we don’t always like when people are too confident or are too out there too different. And sometimes I think we kind of lack that Just bravery of really backing those types of founders and those types of solutions. And it’s, it’s in, because it’s kind of more built into how they are. They are more about individualism and entrepreneurship and that kind of, you know, one individual being crazy and changing the world. And in Europe, we’re a bit more like, hold on, that’s outside of the norm, we’re a bit more conservative and I think. They’ll struggle with that. So it is slowly changing, but I think it’s changing because Americans are coming to Europe and they are, you know, funding our great solutions and they are seeing all this potential. And then Europeans are suddenly saying, hold on, we are needing to change our mindset and our investment strategy. If we’re going to keep up with us, if we’re going to try to make sure that we can actually fund our. You know, home grown talents, essentially. So, so it’s kind of like, it’s not that it’s, it’s changing out of necessity and out of fear of what would happen if we don’t change. So I still think there’s a lot more needed to really encourage and nurture ambition and, and. You know, be bold enough to back the solutions that we need to back. If we’re going to solve climate change in the very limited time we have
Daniel: 12:16
so. For sure. And you, you touched on a really interesting point about like us capital coming into Europe and kind of forcing the hand of European investors to to adopt their mindset as well. So you guys invest both in the U S and in Europe, right? Yep. Is, is there a lot of just very broadly speaking. Is there a lot of differences still in the founder’s mindset that you see whether it’s an American founder or European founder?
Heidi: 12:38
Not in talent and not in capability. But in confidence level yes. I think in, in, in competence level and in the level of. Ambition that we find acceptable. Let’s put it that way. I think a lot of people have that ambition inside and then they think they’re going to change the world and they are sure they’re going to do it. But then when you ask them about it, they don’t really want to say it because they need to be humble. And, you know, they don’t really want to sound braggy and they didn’t want to think that they are special and they could do something. So they didn’t really come in with that confidence. And I think sometimes that’s needed, like sometimes you need to be. Overly confidence and you don’t have to do it in a cocky way. You don’t have to, like, you don’t have to be mean about it, but you have to really believe in your own abilities and you really need to believe in your solution and in your idea more than anyone else. And I think that that does come across with, with American founders much better than it does with European founders. So I sometimes I kind of feel like, you know, almost a bit frustrated that. If you don’t really believe in yourself enough, then how are you supposed to get others to put a million millions of dollars behind your idea and really back this vision? So I, I really kind of my message essentially to European founders would be to. Don’t hold back. Like if you believe in something and you, you know, you think you can make a difference and then don’t be afraid to tell people like Americans. Sure. Aren’t so why should we hold back and pretend that we don’t have the answers that we actually
Daniel: 14:03
do have, right. It’s like, I think it’s, it’s all about balance, right? No one likes to work with someone who is way too arrogant and kind of maybe follow themselves, but yeah. On the flip side. It’s also, if somebody is too humble and maybe a us Europeans have been guilty of being too humble, it’s at certain points right now in certain areas of life and work. But I think it’s like if you’re too humble, you’re basically doing yourself a disservice, but you’re also doing society at this service by not letting people know that you have all these talents and ambitions and great ideas that people can fund or people can come work with. You. Right. Yeah. I think it’s all about finding that balance. Yeah,
Heidi: 14:37
no, definitely. And I would just like to stay there as well though. I think there’s a difference. There’s a distinction with kind of arrogance and, and ambition as well. Like you don’t have to be arrogant in order to be ambitious. Like you can do it in a. You know, you can kind of, you can be a kind humble person doing it for the right reasons, but still have incredibly big dreams and believe in those things. So I think it’s like, you know, sometimes I guess also when we talk about the kind of an American entrepreneur, you know, who’s super ambitious and a bit of a hustler, we kind of think, okay, maybe also a little bit of arrogance, but I think, I don’t think that’s needed. I think we can do ambition in a way that. Maybe more European where we do it in a humble way, but we still have the courage to kind of dream on the same level as others do.
Daniel: 15:24
For sure. How about, how about in terms of like arrogance versus humbleness on that scale of where, where do you see like the European investors falling on that? Like, is there the same problem do you think? Or is it like, do VCs not need to be like super bold and ambitious? Or are they already too kind of smarter? They need to tone it down.
Heidi: 15:40
It’s, it’s a great question. I don’t, I don’t think we have as much of that kind of arrogance in the BC world either. I mean, we do have a few, I’m not going to name any names, but there are a few, but and then there’s some that are really humble, but then again, I feel like, I think the difference here is that like, Our job, in my opinion, our job as VCs is to find and back and nurture the best companies out there. It’s not, it’s not really about us. Like we are again, kind of a vehicle of change. We are not the ones having an impact. We are not the ones changing the world. And I think we don’t, we shouldn’t be arrogant and think that we are, because that is a huge issue and the ones who do believe that it’s about them and they’re the ones making the changes. Right. They’re kind of fooling themselves. Like the founders are the kind of superstars here. They’re the ones, our jobs are to peak them and try to help them and kind of nurture them if we can. So I also don’t think you need that kind of same type of arrogance or ambition. In BC, as you need as a founder, because there, you kind of have the whole world against you and there, you really need to believe in yourselves because no one else will while that’s a VC, we’re kind of in a way we have. No, we have the kind of ability to make choices. So we have a huge responsibility, but you don’t need to be our argument. If anything, I think it’s more important than for you to be humble and kind, and actually realizing that realizing that we are not so important to here. We really, the important thing is the responsibility that we carry to find the best people and the best solutions, and really be part of deciding what essentially gets funded.
Daniel: 17:15
Definitely. So it’s more about spotting the talent, right? Knowing that you’re not the talent. It’s about spotting to tell it.
Heidi: 17:20
I mean, a hundred percent, we are essentially part of the support system. Just like when I was at an accelerator, you know, you kind of spot the talent, you try to nurture them. You, you offer some investments. This is essentially doing the same thing, but on a larger scale, like, I am not important at all in this equation. People can do. Without me, but I do have a huge responsibility to try to find the solutions and the founders that I think are worth backing
Daniel: 17:46
for sure. And so nowadays, like also it’s become so extremely competitive amongst VCs, right? I would assume this is the, to the benefit of the founders, but it’s almost like become like a seller’s market. I don’t know if you, if you agree with that, but so in a market like today where it’s so competitive between investors, do you think it makes sense to specialize on a certain type of investment? Like you guys are solely focused on the climate tech? Do you think there’s a competitive advantage to that as well?
Heidi: 18:10
Yeah, I, I definitely think so. And I mean, it can be a vertical or it can be something like. Climate tech, which we don’t really see as a priority. Cool. Because as I mentioned, it, it kind of spans across all different sectors, but it is still a focus. That means that we are spending our time and our resources to really understand the climate and understanding the solutions and understanding the problems, and then trying to build our own conviction of what the solutions in this space need to look like. And I just think that we don’t have. The time to become experts at everything. So the more focused you can be the better. So whether that is on stage or whether it is on, on specific sector or whether it is on or specific type of solutions, I do think that you need to differentiate yourself and you do need to specialize in something in order to stand out. And I mean, for us, it is trying to be the climate tech VC of Europe. That’s what we’re trying to build.
Daniel: 19:03
I like that. That’s, that’s the kind of ambition that I think the right kind of a level. Yeah,
Heidi: 19:08
I think so. But you know, I think we can do that. Maybe I’m not on the humble side either, but, but, you know,
Daniel: 19:14
yeah. I think, I think you found the right balance, but switching gears a little bit. So like now you’re in a position where I can imagine that you feel a lot of sense of. I have a bigger purpose of the work you’re doing. Like you’re you’re of course it’s helping new companies get off the ground, creating new jobs and economic stimulus, but there was also a much bigger long-term maybe even generational thing to it since you’re investing in climate tech. So like, do you have any thoughts on especially maybe young people who are, who are early in their careers who want to find some kind of a hierarchy purpose to the work they’re doing? Do you have some ways of thinking through that problem?
Heidi: 19:46
Yeah, I think it’s I mean, first of all, there’s so many different problems out there that I do think that I think we should all figure out, like, what is our purpose? I don’t think it is enough to just think that I’m going to spend 40 hours a week just doing something so that I can, you know, enable kind of good life after work. Right. I don’t, I do think that we should think about, be thoughtful around how we’re spending. Our work time, if we have the kind of privilege and the kind of skills and opportunity to do so then, and we have the kind of ability to choose where we focus on, then we should kind of choose wisely. So I there’s so many ways of doing it. I personally, I really love when people just start trying to figure out how they can build or be part of building something. So it, I think it’s just as when you’re young and you’re just getting into it. I think it’s the best way to learn. It’s just throw yourself into it, whether it is a startup or there is another community organization, whatever it is that really, you know, drives you to just jump into something where you can be part of a small. Orientation, build a small organization and then just learn loads. Cause you’ll have time to, you know, climb the ladder if that’s what you want to do, you’ll have time to, and, and, you know, alert and learn and, and to be part of a lot of bigger things and you have time to shift if you want to shift into corporates and stuff. But I do think that the, the nicest way is just to throw yourself into the deep end while you have the. The the energy and the time to do so. So, yeah, I’m yeah, I’m very much into just jumping head first into finding out something that drives you. And if it’s not what you want to do, then change gears really quickly, but explore a lot of opportunities. Don’t feel like you need to get caught into. A specific career. That’s not really how the world works anymore. Okay. Some careers do, I guess if you becoming a doctor, you have to become a doctor. You can’t just say, Hey, I’m going to be a doctor next year. And then I’m going to be a lawyer the year after this doesn’t really work. But quite a lot of jobs nowadays do work like that, that you can really just shift completely and do something completely different the next year, if that’s what she wants to do. So. Yeah, I th I think be thoughtful about it and figure out what you can contribute and take it seriously, because it is, in my opinion, it is our responsibility as well. Like I said, if you have the privilege, the skills and the opportunities to be part of the solutions that we need in the world, then I kind of feel like it’s your responsibility to figure out how you fit in as well. Not everyone has the opportunity.
Daniel: 22:09
Super. That’s super interesting to hear your thoughts on that, but, and you mentioned a little bit about like working at a bigger companies and trying to climb the ladder there versus trying to build an organization from the ground up. Like, of course there’s, there’s not black and white, but do you think it’s better to start off in a smaller company?
Heidi: 22:24
I think for sure, because I think in a smaller company, you get to try so many different things. You get to. You learn complete in a complete different way than you do when you join a bigger corporate where you are, you know, just have a very specific role and, and very specific responsibilities. And I think being in a place where you just have to roll up your sleeves and jump in wherever needed. And first of all, you know, the amount of, kind of skills that you learn. But also just the amount of Different things you can explore and try out are so much greater that I think it’ll help you figure out what it is that you really want to do much, much sooner, because then you’ll figure out how it actually works on the inside. And also just thinking about it from the outside, you think, Oh, that sounds like an interesting job. They’ll sound like I’ll like it, it’s not ever the same when you kind of get into it. And a lot of people get stuck at that point. They choose. That’s and then they worked in this industry and then they feel like, okay, well, this is a clear progression within this career. And then, and then it’s hard to kind of get out of it. But if you join like a startup or early stage company is completely different, you’ll kind of, you’ve been there for a few years and you will have an idea of what everyone there did and what position that’s kind of possible is. And then it’s much easier to kind of go from there. So I generally discourage people from going to big corporates if they can.
Daniel: 23:41
Yeah. I have to agree with you there as well. I think it’s like when you, if you join a big company, you’re kind of forced to specialize and I think that’s such a shame for someone who’s maybe in their twenties or early thirties or whatever it might be. I think it’s like you don’t like specialization is something from way that are in your career. If I don’t know, even know if like, if in today’s today’s world even makes sense to be a specialist in anything anymore, that’s all the discussion. Yeah.
Heidi: 24:04
That’s exactly it. And this also where we have to think about what we need in the future. And like I said, there are certain professions, like. Talk through it, we will need specialized doctors. I think I wouldn’t trust anyone to come in and do like a brain operation. But but a lot of careers are so much more kind of fluid and, and, and flexible and nowadays, and I think that’s, you know, we’re, we’re going towards further also my station and a lot more, it’s going to head that way. So I think we should, we should really kind of prepare for being flexible and being able to kind of jump in whenever it’s needed.
Daniel: 24:36
But what are your thoughts about starting your own company versus joining a company like from the get go? I, I, as far as I know, that is kind of what you did, right. You chose to just jump, head in and start your own thing. Yep.
Heidi: 24:47
Oh my God. I learned so much. I, I, I. Had worked for a few years in multiple small or jobs. But I think I learned so much just starting my own company. And I think I’m definitely a person that was comfortable jumping in head first, even if I had no idea what was happening. and I, wasn’t a time of my life that I, you know, I didn’t have any dependencies and I, I did it. And I was like, I did it together with my boyfriend at the time. Who’s now my husband. But like, you know, we. We were kind of brave enough to just kind of live on essentially nothing out wherever in the world we had to do. So, and I think it was a, it was a great way for me to just go through at that time of my life and learn loads. So I would recommend it to anyone who has who’s in a situation that can do that. But saying that like, I think also. You can join. If, if you, if you don’t have a specific idea or you don’t really want to kind of lead or build a team yourself and you don’t really want to be a founder, it does come with a lot of responsibility and, and a lot of stress. And, if you don’t have a specific. Problem to solve, then maybe it’s better to join someone first who is doing it and just kind of be part of that early stage company. And then, you know, see if you find something of your own. I think I started my own company because no one else was building what I felt like. Was needed. And if, if someone else would have been building it, I might have perhaps, you know, seeing if I could join their company, it just didn’t exist. So then I thought, okay, well then I just have to build it.
Daniel: 26:16
And so you were basically trying to solve your own problem, right? Yeah, that’s another thing with having like a lot of people have different ideas, but they don’t know where to start, but do you think that’s the best way to just try to figure out, like, what are the problems in your life or at your work, and then try to solve
Heidi: 26:28
those? I really love the type of founders who have found a pain point themselves that they know how to solve. I, think, I wouldn’t say always, but I think they often make the best founders, in my opinion. There’s a lot of people who just want to be part of something and they just want to do something and they don’t know what. And a lot of people come up to you and say that, like, he, I just want to be a founder. I just want to have run my startup. Like where do I start? And I don’t, I don’t think that’s a good way to start because then maybe you create something that shouldn’t even exist and then you’re not so thoughtful about, you know, why you’re doing it. And then I think it’s much better if you’re at that stage. Then you should join someone who’s figured out something worth solving. And then, and then be part of that, don’t just build something because I just want to build something because one of the problems that we have have also come up because people just, they were able to build it or, you know, they had the skills to build something, not everything that you have skills to build has to be built and not everything is positive. For the world either. So I think I do have to be a bit more thoughtful about what we actually spending our time on. And like I said, if you don’t have a pain point, if you don’t have a problem, then you know, perhaps not worth pursuing it. And I also think, I think it’s a huge different with founders who are extremely passionate about what they do, because. Running a startup is incredibly hard. It’s really, really, really hard. It’s it’s probably like one of the hardest paths that you can choose or at least a very hard path to choose. It gets very lonely. It gets it’s so draining. It never stops. There’s no work-life balance. There’s. It’s really, really hard. So if you’re not that passionate about what you’re doing, and if you don’t really believe in the solution, it’s very easy to give up. It’s very easy to just, you know, want to leave, want to sell out, just, just not taking care of yourself and your mental health. And it’s just really draining. And I think. You really need to be really passionate to kind of say that, that this new success, like I’m going to figure out how to make it work. And that’s also why I think that you need to, he needs to really believe in that problem. That’s also why it’s easy to start something small, but when it really comes down to it, if you build something credible, you’re hiring hundreds of people, hopefully at some point. Yeah, you need to do it for the right reasons.
Daniel: 28:46
Definitely. And, and it’s very interesting to think about how you also manage the mental health part of it. Right. And I think this applies, definitely most of all to the founders who have the most stressful jobs in the world, but also to a high performance within those companies as well, that are under a lot of pressure. Right. Do you have any general advice on like how you could kind of make sure that you, you manage your, your mental States while doing something that’s so high pressure.
Heidi: 29:11
I think it’s a huge challenge and I don’t feel like I have the answers, but I do think that it’s incredibly important to figure out, to listen to your self into your body and try to figure out how you can, how you can kind of be flexible in your work. I think the, one of the great things with being a founder is that. A lot of the pressure that you feel you’re putting on yourself. And, and you could also think about things differently. Like sometimes you feel like, Oh my God, if I don’t deliver this, there’s all these people waiting, but it is, it isn’t like a boss putting the pressure on you. It is you putting the pressure on yourself and it does mean that you could take the, you could have the flexibility to say, after I deliver this, I’m just going to take two days off and just like, go hiking. I’m just Going to do this. But what I never did is just essentially exercise that opportunity and, and really you know, figure out, like really understand that you are so important in this, in this role, that without you, the startup wouldn’t exist and, and, and without you, this kind of won’t really go on and you are. You’re taking care of yourself. It’s just fundamental. So you start up succeeding and not really feeling like you are the last. Thing to prioritize because that’s, I feel like what I at least tended to do. I put everyone else clients for respectful. It’s of course, a team first, everyone else first. And then I felt like I can be up all night and I can work 24 seven, and I never have to take holidays and I don’t have to get paid, but you kind of put everything else first. And then you realize that if you completely burned out, then there’s nothing left
Daniel: 30:42
and that’s a really good point. It, it feels almost counterintuitive to put yourself first because we all want to make sure that our, you know, our, our teammates are taken care of, but like actually by putting yourself first, you are, you are making sure that everyone else is going to be well off. Right? Yeah.
Heidi: 30:57
Yeah. And yeah, and I think, I think it’s, I think people are, there’s more knowledge about that now. I think so. And I think, I feel like at least people are talking more about kind of founded mental health and, and how to kind of take care of yourselves. Then we did when I was kind of running my companies. But, but yeah, I think it’s, it’s just so vital. It’s just taking care of yourself and the people around you. And it’s very hard to take care of the people around you. If you don’t take care of yourself,
Daniel: 31:21
For sure. Well said, but I think like there’s been so much actionable advice here and so many interesting insights from you. But like before we before we wrap up, let’s say there’s some some entrepreneurs out there who are building a really important climate to tech solutions and tackling some interesting problems. What’s the best way to get in touch with you. all. But that’s very good to know. So he’s easy to approach I think that this has been fun and thanks so much
